Friday, March 28, 2014

Full Stop! (Poornna-viramam)

(Translated version of the Malayalam article)
A few years back, in Malayalam, a memoir, “Ardha-viramam,” written by Swami Amarthyananda was published. The writer was a monk of the Sri Ramakrishna order, who later on decided to leave the monastery and lead a householder’s life. Introducing that book, Sri M.T. Vasudevan Nair, the famous Malayalam writer, had commented about the integrity with which the memoir has been compiled by the Swami. When he had a doubt about the spiritual life he was leading, the Swami saw it as a sign for the direction of his life and decided to leave the spiritual life. His memoir was aptly named ‘Semicolon.’ That book gave a lot of insight into organized monastic life in India with its ups and downs. But it never stooped down to a dirty laundry business, or a fault-finding mission. The author did not lament about ‘what could have been my life’; nor did he express any particular spite towards the leaders of the monastic tradition that he was part of. The memoir was an eye-opener for aspiring spiritual seekers as many youngsters got a well-balanced view of the situations that can be expected in Ashrams as they enter their monastic life. Some decided that the ‘guru-disciple’ style of spirituality would not suit their temperament and hence they were better off not pursuing it at all. Some found the book to be a great resource as they prepared to enter the spiritual life. I have had opportunities to meet with both types of people who have been benefited by that book which was worthy of an appropriate introduction from the doyen of Malayalam literature. So the Swami who was no longer a monk still had a respectful position in the minds of many householders, mine included.

Sweetmeat spoiled by mouse droppings
What made me think about Ardha-viramam is the recent controversy surrounding the memoir published by a former disciple of Mata Amrithanandamayi Devi. Social networks, as well as a lot of audio-visual and print media are all vying to publish exaggerated stories about the book and the author without bothering to inquire into details. Most people who are vehemently talking about the book do not appear to have read the book in its entirety. The book is not an insignificant one as a memoir of a female monk who came to a full stop (‘Poornna-viramam’) in the path of spiritual development, both mentally and physically. The book has sections that appear to have been added on to scintillate the masses, and possibly sell more copies. But they stand apart and I liken them to ‘mouse droppings added to pudding,’ intentionally. If these sections were not there, I would say that the Amrita Mutt should have taken up the publication of the book under the title ‘Poornna-viramam’ !  The added-on sections are ‘too bad to be true,’ when compared to the rest of the book in style and content. Many of the sections in the book were written when the author was a ‘brahmacharini (student monk) or a full monk living in the Ashram. Those writings, in which she expressed her awe and reverence for the divine mother, were periodically published by official Amrita publications such as ‘Amrithavani’! Although amateurish, the memoir has a reasonable level of readability, if you remove the unnecessarily added sections.

I say this because it appears that the sections added were the work of an editor who could not blend the ‘spicy’ sections seamlessly. It comes across as an afterthought on the part of the writer and the editor, springing from a ‘revelation’ that a book  such as this without some spicy sections would not be read by too many, and so no publisher will be interested. The book could have been a beacon for spiritual seekers and atheists alike, just as ‘Ardha-viramam’ was. It is worth noting here that, recently the editor of this book was revealed to be an estranged TM (Transcendental Meditation) teacher who had made similar allegations against her teacher, Maharshi Mahesh Yogi!.

Life in Kerala in the 1970s and 1980s
Many of the events detailed in the book provide a foreigner’s perspective of Kerala life some three or four decades ago. That perspective is obviously different from that of a person who was born and brought up in Kerala. When the writer was in the position of the CEO of the Ashram (as described by her), she had a member of the Ashram staff type up her memoirs.  She had it saved in the laptop she took away when she left the organization. Accounts of the difficulties she endured during her menstrual periods and her concerns regarding personal hygiene, difficulties in cooking for a lot of people in a wood-fired kitchen, managing the limited supply of rice and groceries, etc. would not be seen as strange by an average person who was born before the 1980s, and lived in Kerala during that time as they would have gone through such experiences themselves. As a foreigner with a different cultural background, understandably, these issues were not insignificant for her.

Occasions of spiritual bliss
In the book, the author describes her experiences in Thiruvannamalai (Sri Ramana Maharshi’s ashram) and other places during the early days of her exploration to ‘see’ herself.  She was captivated by the simplicity and profound nature of the Sadhus and the ‘guru’ concept in general. These accounts are very heartrending, and so is her excitement when she talks about the incidents of coming into Amma’s fold as her chosen Guru. She goes on to explaining how she had been lucky enough to drink in the nectar of bliss under the ‘true mother’. She talks about the wonderful trips where she accompanied Amma, and how she was treated like a queen by Amma’s family and relatives (Akkaraveedu in particular), how they would forgo their comforts to make her stay comfortable, despite not being well-off themselves. Amma’s devotees started treating her like a celebrity too, and most of the time she was in charge of Amma’s foreign devotees.

When she describes the episode of Amma and a few close associates, including herself, taking a secret trip, away from all the festivities and ‘marathon darshan circuits’, going to an isolated place by the sea to meditate, swim, and have a good time as ‘Amma and friends,’ the author unleashes her happiest disposition. She also describes a few instances when she felt the real meditative bliss of spiritual life.

As a disciple, she was getting a lot of attention as well as embraces and the occasional scolding from Amma. All those years, she was given free boarding and lodging by the Amma’s family and later, the Ashram. When she was sick with a tumor, the Ashram took care of her in a small hospital, with Amma’s mother and a devotee (a medical student) attending to all her needs.  Once the Ashram was established and she became a senior disciple, she was no longer a servant to the guru, and she herself started getting the adoration as a shadow of her guru. Devotees started falling at her feet also, after prostrating Amma. Initially, she had doubts about her qualification to accept such adoration, but later on she started enjoying the status it brought. She looked forward to Amma’s devotees falling at her feet, and at times she insisted on getting such lofty treatment from the devotees, I was told!
Taking the vow of Sanyasa
Gayatri (later on Swamini Amrithaprana) has written a hearty account enthusiastically narrating her initiation to monastic life. It is a graduation ceremony in some way—culmination of the years-long service and study period. It also shows the guru’s nod towards the disciples’ spiritual maturity. Anticipating the possibility of getting invited to the ceremony, she was concerned whether she will also be qualified to graduate along with the other aspirants. The difference was they were all male. For such initiation ceremony, men will have to present themselves in front of the guru without any clothes on them and the hair shaved off to accept the mantra of initiation. Women, on the other hand, don’t have to undergo such tedious rituals. All can be done symbolically! Amma even joked about it!

It is amazing to see how devotedly and reverentially Gayatri explains the episode of her getting the Sanyasa from a monk who himself had got his initiation elsewhere. Amma’s disciples do not get their initiation from Amma as she is not formally ordained in any monastic system. To maintain the ‘dashanami’ tradition of monk-hood, Amma arranges monks from other Ashrams to initiate her disciples. Gayathri writes very highly of the monk who gave her the initiation and mantra. He was also a contemporary of hers during the early years of her stay in the Ashram.  But, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, she accuses this monk as having mistreated and taken advantage of her a few years prior to this initiation. There is a chapter devoted to the spiced-up episodes of her experiences (or concocted memories of such experiences) at the Ashram, and most of the media personalities have read only this particular chapter, it seems. There is even a Malayalam translation of this particular ‘spicy’ chapter circulating on Facebook/the internet. It is to be noted that no one has bothered to translate the rest of the book as those other chapters in the book are too bland for the mass media to consume, while the offensive chapter stands out like a sore thumb. It mmust also be noted that the author herself wrote in the preface that all that is written in the book is ‘her version’ of happenings.

From economy to business class
As Amma’s activities and popularity gained momentum world over and the Ashram expanded, she began travelling to locations all around the globe. as her travels became more frequent, Amma moved from the economy class to the business class, and Gayatri, her favorite disciple, followed suit. She enjoyed the business class with all of the comforts it offered. During these travels, Gayatri was in charge of Amma’s travel arrangements, appointments, and money.  She had great influence over all of Amma’s activities, and was virtually the CEO of a conglomerate which included schools, colleges, hospitals, pension schemes, publications, and the Ashram management. It is quite possible that she had a nervous breakdown as someone having to deal with all these management responsibilities without having qualified, trained, or prepared for it. She had only a basic school education from Australia when she started travelling to ‘find herself’. She had obviously chewed much more than she could swallow. She confesses as having taken a ‘small amount in dollars,’ along with the laptop that contained her writing, as she left the Ashram, without asking anyone, as she didn’t feel any guilt in doing so!

Amma is a rare spiritual personality
I have been observing Amma for the last twenty years, and I am a fan of hers. I wouldn’t call myself a devotee as I haven’t been engaged in the spiritual practices expected of an Amma devotee. What I find amazing is the respect and acceptability she commands amongst all levels of people, especially the Malayalee crowd of ‘doubting Thomas’’. In Kerala, the different communal sections and subsections of Hindus have continued to practice the non-sense of caste-ism, which is detrimental to the community’s prosperity. There are umpteen castes and sub-castes, and they all have separate organizations and leaders who don’t see eye to eye. People of other major religions started taking advantage of this situation through conversions and by grabbing more than their share of social programs and government delivered benefits. But after Amma came into the social and religious spotlight, she has been getting the respect and acceptance of all strata of the society, from Brahmins to the scheduled castes communities, as they find solace in Amma’s presence. Till recently, in Kerala, even the monks were classified according to their caste of origination, whereas Amma (who came from a lower caste) is not subjected to any such discrimination by anybody. Even Swami Chinmayananda, the guru extraordinaire was once subjected to discriminatory treatment as he was not born in a Brahmin family.  But in Amma, all such distinctions end, and for her, people are her children, no matter what their background is. This is the miracle I see in Amma. If a spiritual teacher is able to bring people of diverse background together, that itself is a divine miracle. To top this off, Amma’s organization has been able to develop into a multifaceted social, education, and healthcare conglomerate.

Amma practices the principles of Sree Narayana Guru
Teachings of Sree Narayanaguru, the most respected seer and social reformer who lived in Kerala in the early part of this century, have been put into direct practice by Amma. In his days, Sree Narayanaguru had consecrated an idol of Lord Siva in a temple, and it was a social and religious revolution at that time, especially in Kerala. When questioned on his qualification to do so, he said, ‘I have installed an ‘ezhava Sivan’ (meaning, Lord Siva belonging to ezhava caste in which the Guru was born). It was an apt, satirical retort to  silence the critics. But Amma’s endeavours to install or consecrate temples never faced any such opposition from upper caste Hindus. She was able to get the support of almost all Hindu communities. Amma even went so far as to ordain non-Brahmins and women as priests of certain temples by imparting proper training to them. Amma did not have to consecrate a ‘dheevara matha’ (goddess of fishers) to make the society accept this religious and spiritual revolution. Still, Amma does not deviate from the traditional, cultural, and ritualistic practices of the monastic order stipulated by Adi Shankara. She sends her disciples to traditional schools for the formal learning of scriptures and for ordaining them into Sanyasa as per the Dasanami tradition (traditional names of monks within the 10 schools are: Saraswathi, Theertha, Aranya, Bharathi, Asrama, Giri, Parvatha, Sagara, Vana, and Puri). Amma’s approach is not of the renunciation that makes monks aloof from society; she insists on implementing the practical aspects of Vedantha for uplifting the society.

Credibility of media sources
Now, let us examine the media coverage of the book written by Amma’s ex-disciple. When the media talk about a person such as Amma, who is the chancellor of educational institutions catering to thousands of students undertaking their studies at various levels—from kindergarten to postgraduate and post-doctoral levels—one would expect a certain level of decency and decorum. The person in question (Amma), although formally not highly educated, leads several institutions and deemed universities that mould thousands of professionals every year. She has been received and lauded by more than 139 countries and the United Nations, and she is famous all over the world through her charity work and spiritual presence. When media portrays an accusation against such a personality, don’t they have to have the basic decency to inquire into the facts and establish prima facie evidence? Did those media playersever think of how such a vulgar allegation would affect the students attending her institutions?  Credibility of the chief of an institution is equally important to the students as the credibility of their degrees. Not all Amrita students are Amma devotees, but they all value the education they are receiving. Whoever masterminded the idea of vilifying Amma with unfounded allegations is trying to purposely tarnish the reputation of well-run institutions.  Year after year, employers flock to recruit students from Amrita institutions en-mass and the statistics show that the rates of recruitment success there is second only to the IITs and IIMs. ‘Na budhi bhedam janayeth…’ says the Bhagavad Gita. Knowledgeable people should not create confusion among the masses by misleading them through false information.

Allegations and insignificant apologies
Reputation of people will be tarnished by allegations, however unfounded they are, as they get publicized widely through front page news with all sorts of exaggerations. But after a few days, months, or even years, when those allegations are found baseless, the same newspapers will publish the news, but usually in an insignificant manner. By that time, there would be no recourse for the accused and the name will be permanently tainted.  We have seen many such instances in the recent past—Dr. Nambi Narayanan (ISRO), Sri. Jayendra Saraswathi Swami, Sri M.K.K. Nair, etc are a few names that come to my mind. All were accused, vilified, and later, upon inquiry, found to have done nothing as alleged.  Understandably most of the major news media are not taking part in the media circus revolving around the unfortunate publication against Amma, which has been taken up only by some of the audio-visual and print media. 

Several years ago in Canada, where I live a medical doctor of Indian origin was accused of sexual misconduct by a teenage girl. The news spread very fast as the subject was spicy. Being quite traditional, the doctor’s family couldn’t take it and they were estranged from him. In the end, after inquiry, it was found that the accusation was false, generated by the spite the girl felt towards the doctor for not prescribing her the birth control pill she wanted. The doctor, driven by his ‘traditional’ outlook, had advised her against the life style she was following and refused the prescription. The doctor lost his medical practice within the two years that the inquiry took! Last year a French citizen was trapped in a false sexual accusation just before he was to be nominated to a critical position in the World Bank! Amma’s name has been rounered to be proposed for a high level international pece prize and timing of the publication of the book is very suspicious to say the least.

Response from some of the ‘culturalleaders
I have read a joint statement written by a famous poet, a story writer, and a monk in response to the allegations raised by Amma’s ex-disciple, extolling the virtues of media freedom. I am surprised by the apparent carelessness they exhibited in responding to this issue, without considering the aforementioned aspects of reputation and credibility. Anybody can accuse another person baselessly, and if the accused is a celebrity the potential damage is significant. Is it not ridiculous to put an accused through trial without having a prima facie enquiry? I agree that the society and the legal system must dole out appropriate punishment without any lenience to all who have been proven guilty. In my opinion, the punishment should be severe if the guilty party is in a position of authority or high repute.

Vedanta philosophy is unique as it embraces diversity
The Sanathana Dharama, which is the basis of Hinduism, is founded on the diversity of practices it embraces. As it accepts the diversity, the advent of the underlying unity or non-duality is the essence of Vedanta as I understand it.  Some people take the path of service to others, while others take the path of meditation and knowledge. Some are very ritualistic in their approach to spiritual and religious practices and some are pure theorists. Some are after pure devotion and others are into worshipping their gurus as their god of choice. Vedanta-based Sanathana Dharma has room to accommodate all of these diverse categories of people, even atheists.

Late Swami Chinmayananda was a doyen of spiritual knowledge and vedantic wisdom with a great following, most of whom chose the path of knowledge and Adwaitha philosophy (non-dual nature of truth). One of his disciples narrated an incident that opened his eyes of knowledge forever.  As Vedantins, most of the student aspirants were fully charged with the high-end philosophy of Adwaitha, and were so convinced of the superiority of the philosophy that they felt a certain degree of contempt towards people practicing other forms of spirituality, including the path of devotion.  One night during a Gita Yajna in Andhrapradesh in India, Swamiji asked his students to get ready and meet him at 2.30 am. As soon as everybody gathered, Swamji started walking, chanting ‘Narayana, Narayana ...’ in the true devotional spirit. Everyone was surprised at Swamiji‘s new teaching. After an hour of walking through the village chanting the Lord’s name, they reached a small hut. Swamiji knocked on the door and out came an old Sanyasi of Ramanuja tradition, a tradition that follows the philosophy of duality. Swamiji prostrated in front of the monk, and all the students followed suit. The Adwaitha Acharya prostrating in front of the Acharya of dwaitha tradition with ultimate respect, fully knowing that his tradition does not agree with the other guru’s! This particular incident opened the eyes of the students as they accept the widely varying traditions of Hinduism. A true Vedantin is sure of the ‘one’ that is the substratum of all, and he is not afraid of playing with the ‘many’. He is not vacillated by any belief, as beliefs are always associated with doubts.

Is Amrita Ashram a parallel Government?
Some people think that the spiritual leaders don’t have the responsibility or right to undertake social service. But thinking back in history, if the spiritual leaders did not act out of compassion, there would have been greater tragedies in the society. Take the case of Sree Narayanaguru, Chattambi Swamikal, and other spiritual stalwarts who walked the path they preached.  In the aftermath of the 2004 Tsunami, Amma’s organization was in the forefront of rescue and rehabilitation operation surpassing what the government was able to muster in the nick of the time. If the Ashram had given this money to the government coffers as some one suggested, we know what would have happened! There would be an enquiry to find what happened to the money so transferred and the enquiry commission would still be convening, after 10 years!. Thousands of affected people are living in houses built by Amma’s organization, not only in Kerala, but also in Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, and even Sri Lanka. Even the chief minister of Kerala had to agree that the work by Amrita mission has been exemplary and has been much more efficient than the government’s efforts. The same Amrita mission donated one million dollars to the Katrina relief effort in the United States, given to the Bush-Clinton Foundation. (Is that also a criminal activity by Amma? Who is she to donate money to America although she collected it from the Americans?). The foundation cited that the donation is one of the largest by any NGO, and the amount was well-spent in the nation building there in teh US. Of course, if our government and politicians show similar credibility and accountability for spending the public money, there is no reason for NGOs to take up service initiatives. Until that happens, let the Amrita charitable organization continue their work of giving solace to a few people through medical help, educational work, and extending a little financial help to the needy by way of a pension scheme.

Donations, initiatives and services
Let us examine the source of donations Amma gets for conducting her charitable services.  I have been seeing Amma since 1991 whenever she visits North America. Initially there used to be regular reminders announced during the Darshan programs about the charitable work undertaken by the organization and the need for public donations. Later on, the emphasis was on selling hand crafted articles brought from India, especially from Kerala, to raise funds.  As the organization and its financial capabilities continue to grow significantly, I find that the emphasis of the Darshan program is not for raising money, but for raising awareness of the Amma movement. Last year when I went to Seattle for a Darshan of Amma, I had to inquire and find about making a donation. There were no constant reminders from anybody asking for Dakshina or donations. A monk from the Ashram was talking about Amma’s plans as being spontaneous and unassuming, whether it is a charitable donation for Katrina in the US or for the earthquake relief in Japan: “Amma will simply come and declare a target, and move on. It is our duty to raise the funds and make good of that vision. By the Lord’s grace, all her targets have been realized by her devotees so far.”

Clarity in spiritual path
I believe clarity of vision is everything in spirituality and secular life alike. I have always amazed by the clarity of spiritual vision Amma imparts. In the 1990s, Amma was speaking at gathering in Camp Flagger, an old US military camp, near Seattle. Three or four thousand people— mostly white Americans, with a few Blacks, Indians, and Orientals— were intently listening to Amma’s colloquial Malayalam. Among them, were a handful of Malayalees.  Amma was speaking: ‘a crow is sleeping, sitting on a dry branch of a tree. Even if that branch breaks, the crow will not fall. It is ever ready to soar high in to the sky, no matter what the condition of its support is. Spirituality is all about this readiness. A spiritual person is ever ready to pick up and move on, no matter what happens to his physical support system ...’. Amma would say a few sentences like this and a senior Swami would translate her words. Once, after Amma spoke, the Swami started speaking in his majestic voice, translating Amma’s words. His speech included a few extra high-sounding and impressive words of Vedanta philosophy, and Amma stopped him right there saying, ‘ mone, amma paranjath paranja mathi’ (son, just say what Amma said). I remember, the then-Swamini Amritaprana, the accuser-writer of the book, being part of that congregation.

Discipline, Advices and Controls
Swami Chinamayanada used to say that ‘devotees and disciples are different creeds.’ Devotees are those who come and visit the guru year after year, take his photographs as if at a zoo, and keep having the same doubts whenever they see the guru. But disciples are different. The expectations are different, and a certain discipline is required of them. Guru has the reign of the disciple’s growth and behaviour. It is because of the strict control and structure Amma maintains that she is able to direct so any initiatives of the Ashram. In order to take care of a small plant, it has to be fenced in and fed appropriate amount of water and food. It must be protected from animals and harsh weather. Moreover it must be pruned to control and direct its growth. Many of Amma’s disciples have left the fold as they are not capable of standing the strict atmosphere there, and many more are willingly and happily enduring the ordeal with an open heart and devoted mind. A free bird may not find the Ashram life suitable, although some may take a long time (20 years, may be!) to realize it.

I know of an incident of Amma giving directions to disciples even in areas of higher education. A person with a master’s degree from Canada joined the Amrita University to teach computer science. Within a year or so, he decided to do his doctorate and went to see Amma for her blessings. She asked him about his plans and his topic of research. When he told her the topic, she said, ‘son, it seems that topic may not have much scope in the future, why don’t you check with this son of mine—he is a professor in US.I will give you his contact address. Check with him before you finalize the topic of research …’

Private enterprise, business
Even if the Amrita empire were to be considered as a business concern, look at the way it is run, the values it imparts, and the results it produces. Are they keeping proper accounts and conducting the business ethically? Are their medical and educational institutions working properly? Are they performing better or equal to that of public institutions? What is wrong with a private business being run in India? What is wrong in this business group engaging in charity work? Is the society better off or worse off by having such an organization functioning? The answers are clearly positive for the society. Amrita medical institutions are top of the class in the country. Amrita University produces some of the best graduates in all the professional programs, and employers flock to recruit their graduates. Note that the average pass rate of government and other engineering colleges in Kerala is as low as 30 per cent, whereas Amrita’s graduating rate is above 90 Per cent and most graduates find their fisrt job through campus recruitment.

Amma’s organization raised the required money to run the various institutions through private donations from India and abroad, not through share market manipulation or through 2G/3G scams. They do not raise money to convert people into Hinduism either. Of course the educational institutions run by Amrita Ashram takes capitation fee, for they are self-financed institutions, following the rule of the land. They are not conceived as charitable institutions as many other organizations that have started their colleges. Is there a law broken because of this? In that case, how many organizations have broken the law in Kerala?

The finance raised through donations has been amply utilized for charitable and service oriented work throughout the world. Amrita super speciality hospital is a professionally run, high-end facility that requires significant cash flow to run it. The treatment is not free for all. They do charge the patients according to their ability to pay. My personal experience there a few years ago has been very direct and fair. My father was hospitalized there and right from the beginning a counselor talked to him about the treatment, inquiring about his family background. He said he was a pensioner. Then she asked him about his children. When she knew that his family was in reasonably good financial standing, the counsellor said, ‘We are going to charge you the standard rate for medical treatment.’ They treated my father well and they even took back the unused medicines and medical supplies for the same price as we purchased. I have never come across a better hospital experience anywhere in Kerala. I know of a few medical professionals going to Amrita hospital every year to serve there as volunteers. They do have a very strict screening of these volunteers as well.

Spirituality is selfishness at its best
Personally I am selfish guy—spiritually, that is. Although I am interested in spirituality, I am not yet prepared to submit myself completely unto a guru or ism. I am happy to extend my respects and to prostrate in front of great spiritual personalities of all backgrounds. I am equally excited to see and listen to Amma, Mar Christosum Pontiff, and Malliyoor Bhagavatha Acharyan. I have written extolling the love of Amma, and I have translated the work of Swami Sandeepananda Giri, who has recently spoken against Amma. I don’t agree with his point of view in this matter, but that is his right to be so.

My most favorite stanza in the Bhagavad Gita is “uddhareth athmanaathmaanam…” Its meaning is that ‘one should be responsible for one’s own development and he/she should never falter in his path detrimental to his/her progressive evolution. There is no quick fix to life; one has to fight his own battle. I try and gather from gurus of all traditions the best messages I can, and live selfishly imbibing them. I am like a honey bee taking honey from the many flowers it comes in contact with. It may be that I am not mature enough to find ‘the one guru’ for my guidance. To me, spirituality is a lonely journey.  All gurus and scriptures are like poles used in pole-vault. After passing the net, there is no utility for the pole. I like the selfish journey where I treat others the way I like to be treated. I like to call it sathvic selfishness.

Even if my gurus have faltered in certain occasions, I don’t take it personally, because I have taken the best out of them already. I will not be disappointed if they fall from the pedestal either, as I have gathered what I need from them already. More than the guru as a person, I value the un-flickering flame of truth that is kindled by the guru in me even if that was for a short moment.


  1. good impartial article - Mr Sukumar - I am agreeing with you-

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